#20 Henry Reyenga with Christian Leaders Institute

[00:00:00] Welcome to A Christian Business Podcast. I am one of your hosts, Aaron with Redeem Doofing

[00:00:05] and Exteriors and we have Justin back on the show. It's been a hot minute. It's been a hot

[00:00:10] minute. You guys have you guys have probably missed Justin and got sick of listening to

[00:00:14] just me. So maybe Justin can there was no one here to make fun of you. I was waiting. I was

[00:00:20] I was trying to find a way to say that. But okay. And today we are joined by Henry Ryan, who is just

[00:00:30] set in the world on fire here with what he's doing with Christian Leaders Institute. He is the

[00:00:34] president of Christian Leaders Institute. It's where I have been schooling for the past,

[00:00:40] I don't know 14 years or so. You're actually one of our first ones. We started 2006. You were

[00:00:47] like 2009. But in 2009, we were really still nothing. What did you have? Like 150 students or

[00:00:53] something? Well, yeah, 150 active students. We might have had, you know, 1000 students.

[00:00:59] But active courses at that time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So very, very few. But so I'm so excited

[00:01:07] to hear and and Henry has just is so passionate about what he does and so passionate about

[00:01:12] training Christian Leaders. And so we're going to talk about some of that. But obviously,

[00:01:17] typical format, we're gonna he's going to share some words with us some devotion. And then we're

[00:01:22] going to really dig into his story and then move into what God has done through CLI in his life

[00:01:30] and the lives of the 600,000 plus I just I just found out students with CLI. That's really

[00:01:38] awesome. So we're gonna we're gonna get to that. So hang on if you're excited about CLI,

[00:01:41] hang on, but we're gonna we're gonna go through our normal format here. So

[00:01:45] we're gonna dig right in Henry. Thanks for being on the podcast. Thank you very much.

[00:01:49] You know, when I was called to the ministry when I was 12, my grandmother read a passage

[00:01:56] in the King James version from Jeremiah that talked about before I formed you in the womb.

[00:02:02] I knew you and then set you apart and all of those things that I

[00:02:06] felt the intensity of the Holy Spirit like only how God can speak to you when you did

[00:02:11] not expect it and how that was processed over the year was like, okay, how do we reach the nations?

[00:02:20] And you know, there's a long story about the childhood and how you know, your

[00:02:24] negative things are even part of the positive things, especially looking back at age 62. I see

[00:02:30] even things like this neighbor who is abusive was part of your discipleship journey. And then

[00:02:38] my parents, how my mother was mis-positive, how my dad was Mr. Analyzer. And so you go through all of

[00:02:44] these things, how you know, I went to a public school and then how I worked at a grocery store

[00:02:50] and then studied philosophy and then went through Calvin's Seminary and then planted churches. And

[00:02:55] all of this comes to moments when the Lord shows up at times and in 1990 as planting a church,

[00:03:04] in that time, there was this sense of the Lord saying, before you are millions of people. And it

[00:03:13] was a dream called a vision. In one night, somebody walked up to me in this dream, I've seen millions

[00:03:21] of people and said they're the ministers, train them. And I'm like, Ah, sovereign Lord, I'm only

[00:03:27] a child. I have no idea what you are talking about. But my wife and I committed to that.

[00:03:32] And then in devotions, that time there was this verse, which has now become our North Star verse.

[00:03:39] And that's where I would like to take the devotions from Romans chapter 15,

[00:03:43] verse 14, I myself am persuaded, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of knowledge filled

[00:03:50] with all goodness and able to admonish others. I write to you more boldly in part to remind

[00:03:56] you, because of the grace that was given to me by God, that I should be a servant of Christ Jesus

[00:04:03] to the Gentiles, serving the priestly function of sharing the good news of God, offering up to the

[00:04:09] Gentiles an acceptable sacrifice sanctified by the Holy Spirit. I therefore, in my bosom in Christ,

[00:04:16] in these things pertaining to God, I do not dare to speak of anything except those which

[00:04:22] Christ works through me by obedience of the Gentiles by word indeed, and the power of signs and

[00:04:29] wonders, the power of the Holy Spirit. So that from Jerusalem all around as far as

[00:04:35] Ilkram, I will fully preach the gospel of Christ. And devotionally wise, what I

[00:04:43] identify with this passage is that each of us have a ministry, and each of us see what God is

[00:04:54] doing in that ministry. So each of us are part of it. And as people are listening to this podcast,

[00:05:01] I see that possibility for everybody, that each person can speak, and they're not going to speak

[00:05:09] what someone else is doing. And I've noticed that throughout even Christian leaders Institute now,

[00:05:14] that the diversity of ministries, this is a podcast, this is a ministry. Each person,

[00:05:22] whether you're a mother, or whether you're a podcast leader, or a business person,

[00:05:26] I mean business people right now, you're ministers, this is the perfect time to be a

[00:05:31] Christian businessman, because you will change the game in people's lives not only financially,

[00:05:36] but you're embedded. And that's what this passage means to me. And that's what my whole passion is

[00:05:43] at Christian leaders Institute is, how do we mobilize agents of hope in a world of despair

[00:05:50] to bring hope and ask them to become the agents with us as we reach more people?

[00:05:56] You know, I like that Henry, because we, you know, in this podcast, right, we talk with a lot

[00:06:01] of a lot of leaders, right? I mean, entrepreneur entrepreneurs, it's everybody who's been on here

[00:06:06] has been a most for the most part a business owner. Yes. And so they're already leading in some way

[00:06:12] in the world. And our talk is really how are you? How are you presenting grace? How are you

[00:06:19] ministering to the people around you through the business that God's entrusted you to?

[00:06:23] And I appreciate that you, you've taken that to the next step of not only how are you

[00:06:29] ministering to those around you, but how are you equipping those people to minister more effectively?

[00:06:37] And so it kind of takes a Christian business podcast. It moves to the next level. So I just,

[00:06:44] I'm just so glad to be a part of you know, one of the things I've come to appreciate

[00:06:49] is the early church was about the volunteer, the part time, and eventually it became

[00:06:56] the career ministers. And let me explain it a little fuller. So in, there's like the apostle

[00:07:01] Paul says he's a tent maker and he says it right away. So he's a businessman. But later on in his

[00:07:07] life as he pursued forward, it was the business community through Fulemon that supported them

[00:07:15] in his full time ministry. So he starts out as a business person, bivocational,

[00:07:22] and then his ministry keeps expanding. And then soon he himself is supported by the business community.

[00:07:30] So, and I love that paradigm in that I think of like another story in the early church.

[00:07:35] So there's this guy named Plenty the Younger and almost no one on your podcast or no business

[00:07:42] man would ever have a plenty. So he himself is owns a state. He is a Roman businessman,

[00:07:49] but he's also connected to the politics. So he's asked to be the governor in Bethany way in the north

[00:07:55] Turkey. So he's writing to the emperor Tragian who has a policy of persecuting Christians going on.

[00:08:02] So this businessman, he's secular businessman writes about Christians and he says Christianity

[00:08:10] is expanding everywhere in every village in every place it's going everywhere. And then he says

[00:08:17] I've arrested some Christians and some of them do not recant and they paid the penalty of martyrdom.

[00:08:24] Then other Christians he said, they recanted because they were Christians 20, 30 years ago,

[00:08:32] but they departed from that place. Now what happened then there was kind of like in that time

[00:08:38] there was a thought that Jesus was going to come back in the life of the apostles

[00:08:42] and when he didn't come back some got discouraged in the book of Hebrews. It was very written to

[00:08:46] those people who got discouraged. So there was Christianity was now going to be not just in

[00:08:52] the life type of the apostles. It was a huge change. So now it's 112 AD and Plenty is writing

[00:09:00] 80 years after the resurrection Plenty is writing to the emperor and then he says

[00:09:06] I arrested and tortured two female slaves that they call ministers and all I found was a devotion

[00:09:14] to Jesus Christ devotion to the faith, their faith. So then it's therefore I write you emperor what I

[00:09:23] should do why the Romans were afraid of their slaves Spartacus and here now the Christians

[00:09:33] are mobilizing slaves and women slaves the lowest of the low are now be immobilized to be ministers.

[00:09:43] This is out of hand celsus 30 years later another pagan says that Christianity is the

[00:09:49] near do well fate it's made up of slaves male and female it's made up of the poor born

[00:09:56] and it's made up of a few businessmen few businessmen and women who should know better

[00:10:04] okay just in other words so yeah it's like you know and that's where I look at it's like you

[00:10:10] know and that's where it comes down to the volunteer the volunteer minister like everyone

[00:10:15] the early church was filled with all these roles the the when plagues that there was the

[00:10:21] these ministers who would go into these villages filled with sickness and they'd be the ones praying

[00:10:26] for healing many times they would get the disease and die as well across the board it was a volunteer

[00:10:33] effort and stayed that way for about 300 years and then it really went to a clergy driven

[00:10:40] professional effort and christian leaders institute what I'm all about is how do we

[00:10:46] mobilize the volunteer right again right in a vibrant way absolutely and how does a business

[00:10:52] man also become a minister so we have we have so many businessmen and women who are like wedding

[00:10:58] efficiency and efficiency and they're doing ministry but it and think how perfect that is

[00:11:03] you know a business leader is now trained to do some ministry roles they're embedded

[00:11:09] and the next thing you know they could invite them to their church if they're first

[00:11:14] doing ministry to right exactly well let's let's dig into your story and we're going to set

[00:11:20] ceo lie aside for a minute okay yes there's a story is probably all connected right right right

[00:11:26] there's a lot there's a lot of henry pre ceo lie and so we want to dig into even you know

[00:11:31] 12 years old like you said so take us back there to we want to know your personal story of faith

[00:11:36] of meeting jesus and what that looked like before jesus and what that looked like after jesus

[00:11:42] showed up after you realize jesus was there in your life jesus was there anyway so kind of give us

[00:11:48] your personal testimony henry okay so i was raised in a home my parents love the lord my dad was a

[00:11:54] accordion player he my mom my mom would give service if somebody was sick she would go right to their

[00:12:01] house without questions so i had this incredible four real parents who my mother was a factory

[00:12:08] worker and my father was a tractor mechanic but they lived it it was so incredible just

[00:12:14] subtly the earth kind of people so and my grandmother was a real intellectual she was

[00:12:19] they came after world war one to america and she had her phrase was christ jesus is the joy

[00:12:27] of salvation and the conviction of faith and she lived it vibrantly so i had this great upbringing

[00:12:34] and it's and i'm the last born in this family and i was pretty much all in on it i never remembered a

[00:12:42] time when i wasn't on that why i did love singing the songs they didn't love doing it but being in

[00:12:47] ministry was not something that i ever thought but the grandma from the king james urgent what

[00:12:54] i read earlier was my mother's mother so separate from the other grandma who and and she was

[00:13:00] stern dutch person who actually had runners on her carpet and and as a last born child i

[00:13:08] okay this all right now we get a picture of who this lady is okay i mean like and i'm this last

[00:13:13] born child and my mother by the time i came along you know i had few rules so you know i'm just

[00:13:20] like whatever i have fun everything was fun and all that stuff so i was afraid of that grandma

[00:13:26] so when so okay my great grandma had plastic on her couches too so yeah it was you didn't sit down

[00:13:35] but she would bring she had a a red bat like a wiffle ball bat she chased you around with

[00:13:40] yeah if we got in trouble oh she was not afraid to punish us well what did you do i don't know i

[00:13:46] don't remember we were just good kids remember getting changed with a wiffle ball bat she threatened

[00:13:50] you with it too you can't catch me grandma you barely walk my my bank grandparents the grandparents

[00:13:58] that were still alive they were out of just far away i think i saw them five times in my life

[00:14:06] but so i don't have any grandparent stories like that my mom however

[00:14:12] she milked goats by hand oh and i told her no once and yeah once

[00:14:19] so she had these big mitts like mine just like came down across my face and when i woke up i decided

[00:14:26] i wasn't gonna tell her no again probably good idea right anyway but anyway so she is scary and

[00:14:32] she's scary to me so i'm like what so she calls me i'm fishing with cousin melvin she calls me into

[00:14:38] in him into there and she and she had a big dutch axe that she goes set down in dutch almost

[00:14:46] so i sat down and she goes and she opens up jeremiah one without any introduction and she reads it

[00:14:53] yes grandma yes grandma okay okay grandma and i still can picture this day before i formed you

[00:15:00] in the boom the boom you know i knew you you know and and at that moment by the time

[00:15:10] boom was said the holy spirit was like all of my attention every sense even to this day every sense

[00:15:19] was pricked and i left walking out a holy moment where i am called to the nations

[00:15:28] and it's fascinating christian leaders and stood is in 200 nations now right at the time i didn't

[00:15:34] even get it all i knew was i was 12 now it's interesting after that calling it was like the

[00:15:42] next week you know doing the paper out all of a sudden i became aware that in where we got the

[00:15:48] paper in the attic was pornography and you know it was like whoa and then all of a sudden the first

[00:15:56] challenge because a 12 year old that looks like great right you know and then all of a sudden i

[00:16:02] develop at and then next door there was a couple who the guy was he was like cultivating me to have

[00:16:12] sex with his wife this was the 1970s it was strange okay and but at the time i don't know

[00:16:21] that it's because i called you because i formed you in the womb and i called you i had no idea

[00:16:28] as i look back and i'm 60 now but even all of that was a preparation for ministry because i started

[00:16:37] learning i mean in a sense everyone's story is a story you may be called the ministry but you

[00:16:45] will face stuff and you will experience stuff that challenge you so then i got my mother

[00:16:53] so being the great mother she was to a last born child i didn't even pick up my laundry out of

[00:16:59] the floor i knew did not know how to cook and you know anything but one thing she gave me was

[00:17:04] confidence so she i'm 14 she says okay go to your job job i have good life no job at the

[00:17:12] nw restaurant so i got a job at the nw restaurant and at the nw restaurant i was a cook and they

[00:17:20] entrusted very sharp knives to last born children who do not know how to do anything to cut coleslaw

[00:17:28] in your first day i'm like you know oh i mean i just touched the end of that knife and i realized

[00:17:34] you know i could lose a finger but those are you know the experiences the good the bad the ugly

[00:17:40] the redemption the lord never left me and he brought to me a process by which you know there's

[00:17:47] confession there's growth there's healing there's but that's the story of everybody who's reached

[00:17:53] in ministry to say that you know i mean we've we've had this is i don't know episode 20 21

[00:17:59] something like that and you know everybody that's been on the show has had some you know a few

[00:18:06] transformative times in their life i mean you know justin you had a moment that you shared with

[00:18:12] us that that was really transformative in your faith and and really you know had a big impact and a lot

[00:18:19] of people i ask who are just kind of you know going over their story if you go back and listen you

[00:18:23] can hear it but you know i ask you know was there a was there a moment or a period where

[00:18:30] okay yeah you're kind of gradually growing in faith but was there a moment where there was a

[00:18:34] big jump where there was a big impact on your faith and a lot of time it's it's experience

[00:18:37] and a lot of time it's negative experiences right and so how god uses that to shape who you are and

[00:18:43] what you're what you're calling is what your ministry is and so it's just kind of it's

[00:18:47] kind of neat to hear because you know i've heard parts and pieces of henry's story for quite some

[00:18:51] time and we see what god is doing in his life now and it's just it's really cool to kind of

[00:18:55] see some of those stories that shape what would you say probably it would be the well it's kind

[00:19:02] of sounding like grandma's grandma's boom boom you're forming in the in the boom was was a huge

[00:19:09] was there another like really big like moment where you were like whoa you know that same

[00:19:16] guide melvin so when that was like probably 16 we were both you know got a car and we're driving

[00:19:22] and back then you know i can't believe on my day i would like i got my license and then he said

[00:19:27] here's an old 1966 classic you can just use it but you know just don't kill yourself you know it's

[00:19:33] like he just gave me the keys and like a week later i'm driving to milwaukee county stadium for the

[00:19:38] brewery game and like this 16 year old is like i'm on the interstate i get i mean i look back

[00:19:43] at those so here we are that's that life so we we're going to church and after the second

[00:19:50] service and one of the services i to melvin to and i we sense the power of the holy spirit and

[00:19:58] it was like the calling was like you know god is everything jesus christ he also

[00:20:06] you know this is now four years of my cousin he also had many experiences we both did and it was

[00:20:13] as if the calling to ministry but then along the way there are these milestones where right

[00:20:19] all of a sudden yeah you you hit a wall and what are you gonna do and i would say my life is filled

[00:20:25] with a lot of interesting milestones meeting my wife i mean i saw my was 16 my wife was 14

[00:20:31] and i'm telling you like she has smitten me ever since then i was 41 years this year of marriage

[00:20:38] but she smiked me in the lord i mean i saw her she's you know she loves the lord and she's a very

[00:20:46] like childlike faith in her love of the lord and but she's also a strong intellectual so

[00:20:55] i marry this girl i'm a dyslexic okay so i end up going you know so i go to college and then

[00:21:03] you know my goal is to be awful of you know ministry so they say you'll you have to really

[00:21:09] study some philosophy so so i remember my first test in from philosophy came back with the

[00:21:16] d- and the professor said vel and he and this was a dutch college in the middle of northwest

[00:21:22] i want these dutch people henry well you know i did right west yeah i suppose that's pretty dutch

[00:21:28] right so i go to this dutch college out in northwest iowa and it's renowned for not

[00:21:34] for corn and you know air culture but it had a strong philosophy department so i'm

[00:21:40] and a good business department too so i'm out there and so the philosopher says well

[00:21:47] i see a work and i think you should look into business

[00:21:57] you know it's like okay you know great so dutch people prophesying over you and i know

[00:22:05] so then i said to him i said to him are you really good as a philosopher

[00:22:10] are you really an effective teacher i was just joking with him you know poking him a little bit

[00:22:14] you know because he was so pretty serious but you know being the last born child you know you can

[00:22:18] pretty much make anything funny and you know so it was like go because i thought it was like

[00:22:25] this moment where he goes like business i go well you know you're in the business of philosophy

[00:22:30] are you really good at this and he was like and he goes like val you know somebody say about

[00:22:35] you know he's phd all the accolades you know everything bad and then i said so you'll probably

[00:22:40] be really i'll be like a good case study for you you know if you can help me get a i just

[00:22:46] if you help me figure out how to get a b in philosophy then that's like then we know you're

[00:22:51] good wait if you can get high henry ryan get through philosophy then you made it and and i had a

[00:22:57] yeah i had a 3.3 um great point average by the time i graduated so he was someone successful

[00:23:02] i mean i can't say that was like you know over the top but you know but it's a night go to

[00:23:08] calvin seminary and now calvin seminary is like three times harder than the undergraduate philosophy

[00:23:15] but then enter pamp and here's this gal who when we were recording we were talking out

[00:23:23] of shared my dreams of ministry the calling and she's like you know looks at this and she's like

[00:23:30] i'm in all in 100 are you gonna lead as much as i'm going to be in or you know

[00:23:37] i'll do anything so i promise her would you live in a single wide

[00:23:43] i i figured let's just a very real question let's just be let's just let's be open sweet like

[00:23:48] what level do we tell you we tell you like single wide tent are we i mean are we like yeah

[00:23:54] income level is there right exactly you know how how in are you she's so she looks me in the eye

[00:24:03] i will live in a single one that is a powerful drug you know so i think to myself

[00:24:09] whoa she's not only hot to be physically but she's hot to be spiritually spiritual

[00:24:15] whoa i i mean it's like it's just like that at that next level yeah that's awesome so but

[00:24:21] but that is a spiritual moment right when you say what are those spiritual moments in your journey

[00:24:26] that too is a spiritual sure absolutely where there's like a there's a there's a i don't know

[00:24:33] there's it it's like i'm one of those mountaintop experiences and no that's that's so we got married

[00:24:39] june 4th 1983 okay june 4th 1983 in a 83 i wasn't here okay i mean a long time ago i know

[00:24:49] we were you know i won't make any more jokes about age how's that no no problem so okay so you

[00:24:57] you share with your wife the stream and you don't quite see where it's going or where it's

[00:25:03] that you know you're going to seminary right so you're at calvin seminary and now we're

[00:25:09] gonna kind of move into what would normally be as your business story but we want to kind of hear

[00:25:14] the kind of that intermediate space and then into and then into cli so you're at calvin seminary you

[00:25:20] graduate and and then what happens well it's clear by the time i'm done with calvin seminary first i

[00:25:28] wasn't really a great fit for calvin seminary yeah i kind of was thinking that too so

[00:25:36] i mean okay no offense calvin seminary actually i like calvin seminary i believe more than they

[00:25:42] liked me i mean i was sort of like this like person who would like raise my hand because it was like

[00:25:49] something just interest me and then i would just like in the professor be like i gotta get through

[00:25:54] this material we want to look at words like logos and all that and i want to like talk about like

[00:26:01] whoa no what does this mean right you know again it was that type of but anyway i made

[00:26:06] through calvin and by the time i was through i was like all in to be a church planter i just

[00:26:11] wanted to reach people planting churches yeah that was yours that that was your thing so you know

[00:26:17] so i'm gonna ask a question here did you did was your feeling wanting to plant churches

[00:26:24] was that motivated by a frustration with churches the way they were or did you see a need for more

[00:26:31] churches i was not frustrated by the way churches were i loved every bit of it i even love singing

[00:26:36] out of the blue sultan no back then we had a blue sultan i loved it all i loved everything

[00:26:41] about my upbringing i loved everything about church i just knew growing up i knew neighbors who

[00:26:47] tried to cultivate young people into weird sex i worked at the at the anw restaurant i saw the

[00:26:56] sadness of peers were there who some were contemplating suicide in the dairy department i got into a

[00:27:04] frozen food manager job when i was 16 it was great i loved every bit of it but the

[00:27:11] dairy department guy who was my age was just absolutely in a mess and then billy grand would

[00:27:17] show up at walkie-coy state even since i could drive i would like say to my friends let's go

[00:27:24] to let's see you know so i'd ask every one of them and then and on one of the occasions only one

[00:27:32] person would want to go strange so i would like i couldn't even believe it so so i'm like

[00:27:40] so in the one girl that could go was like the prom queen and here this guy who's got

[00:27:47] the insets all over his neck he's like kind of wild and in some ways in terms of not conventional

[00:27:56] you know it has the prettiest prom queen girl in the car going to the billy grand concert

[00:28:03] but you know what i saw is i saw that you could have external beauty and dynamic personality

[00:28:12] but have poverty of soul right right and that motivated me to say i don't care i don't want to

[00:28:19] just i so i have never served in an organized christian reform that was that background

[00:28:26] church because all i was passionate about was reaching people right the so so you're you're

[00:28:32] passionate so you saw the answer to a lot of the world's hurt as churches as jesus christ because it

[00:28:41] was the answer even at a young age i could not have gone through you know back to that that guy who

[00:28:47] was trying to get me to have sex with his wife you know what in my hormones i wanted to well

[00:28:52] sure and what are you 14 15 years old and there's a adult woman next door yes and very

[00:28:59] beautiful adult woman with a very open door to do things that were unspeakable and by the grace of

[00:29:04] god i did not praise god okay i didn't do it and but the only reason i didn't do it is because of

[00:29:11] jesus christ i wanted to do it right so you saw the answer so you saw the answer as jesus

[00:29:18] and you thought the most effective way to get him to the world was through the church

[00:29:23] yes through the gospel right through the church the gospel the whole organization right and how can

[00:29:30] the church and how can the gospel have a new churches and especially in 1987 there was another

[00:29:35] seminary and dave heisinger who was with me at that time and we were just like i knocked on

[00:29:41] thousands of doors and talk about like what you see when you knock on thousands of doors

[00:29:48] and i didn't care you know it's like knock on the next door even in a further church because

[00:29:53] i planned to that one then play another one then you was in new jean origan and i got a business man

[00:29:58] top rotor who just like said to himself you know i'll join you and go you'll join me yeah i say

[00:30:04] well look let maybe you'll get some clients well he said maybe but i'm just interested

[00:30:09] so he would take one end of the street i'll take the other and there was this one woman

[00:30:13] named zoe he knocks on that door this is this business guy who's knocking on that door and um

[00:30:20] you know giving out his cards and saying that across the streets there's a minister he's playing

[00:30:24] in a church i'm um playing you know i'm looking for real estate leads i mean he was just like

[00:30:28] but he would knock on doors too back at under and lo and behold zoe answers the door

[00:30:36] and she's got a noose laying she's gonna hang herself oh my goodness but somebody knocks on

[00:30:41] the door and she somehow weirdly thinks she has to like answer it it's like just let the door go but no

[00:30:47] she knocks on the door and gary to realtor with me you know said yeah there's a minister across

[00:30:53] the street and she takes it somehow some transcendent new age sign that maybe she should talk instead

[00:30:59] of kill herself and so that moment in that time we gary and i led her to Jesus christ and she

[00:31:05] did not kill herself that's awesome but i will tell you that this are these are some of the best days

[00:31:13] in the worst days for things it's the worst days for so many things are being deconstructed through

[00:31:20] post-monitism and everything like that but it's the best days because Jesus is here today real

[00:31:26] alive changes lives transforms people it's crazy so when you go to her to door you see that i

[00:31:33] think i think that for like in business like this is the a wonderful day to do a business because

[00:31:40] you actually can control your schedule a little bit you're not dealing with some specific corporate

[00:31:46] policies and your minister and you're talking to people every day i think it's just crazy anyway

[00:31:52] i digress no you get you get this is no this is good stuff this is what people are appreciating

[00:31:57] from the podcast so let's see where we're so now i'm planning churches okay we're planning churches

[00:32:04] and you made it to oregon for some time yeah didn't you spend some time in canada as well

[00:32:08] well i was in colorado what you know is interesting first was illinois that church grew to about 500

[00:32:14] and then that vision of 1990 came along where it was really like you know and i knew it had to

[00:32:19] be ordinary people and that we had planted willow creek style church there and that style

[00:32:25] back in the willow creek was very much getting professional it was very much programmatic so

[00:32:31] you know i was looking at okay what could we do to shift it to a more volunteer style

[00:32:37] and then i was in colorado in an amway distributor tried to give me an amway

[00:32:41] and i was so utterly impressed because here this amway distributor was and i saw it you know

[00:32:47] this is a volunteer businessman volunteer businessman is trying to get people to do well in business

[00:32:54] that's what we do i want to do in the church volunteer people to be so i fact rich devos the

[00:33:01] amway headquarters a request to mentor me and what did he do 24 hours later he says sure

[00:33:09] i'll mentor you and next thing you know i'm flying in jeez jets going to orlando magic game

[00:33:15] and he's like totally i mean it's like you just can't make this stuff up i mean i'm like

[00:33:20] nobody out in colorado sends a corporate fax to amway corporate headquarters and command the next

[00:33:27] thing you know you're you're you're rolling with rich devos i mean i'm like i'm the son of him again

[00:33:34] i can't a factory worker i mean like when i was walking on to like the the jetway on this jet

[00:33:40] i'm thinking like whoa what is this like am i dreaming yeah no kidding so you hooked up with

[00:33:47] rich devos and my point was and i asked him i just want to know how to mobilize volunteers a guy

[00:33:53] named steve elsing another minister who is in the same passion got into that mentorship and he and i

[00:33:58] worked with them and learned and learned and learned which became the dna of ceo i how do we

[00:34:05] mobilize and launch volunteer ministers so this was in the 90s right yep 1993 i was 32 and he

[00:34:14] was 68 okay so now i'm like getting close to 68 what happened i mean it's like the whole life just goes

[00:34:21] by so you built an amway distributorship well then i thought pretty quickly because i said ryan go yeah i

[00:34:26] said that i said to myself i should do amway if he's going to mentor me so i did in six months

[00:34:31] had 80 distributors and then at the next time rich met with me goes quit amway you know i go like

[00:34:37] why quit am i did you wait a minute yeah i was like you know wait i was started i was like i loved

[00:34:43] you know i love diva says quit amway he does yeah he said quit him he said because don't forget the

[00:34:51] point of why you're you're learning i i want to mentor you i had to reach others for the gospel

[00:34:59] okay and i know that amway works and i know that you will make it work

[00:35:05] but i don't think that that's why you're here and i go you're right so i quit quit amway i

[00:35:12] and i love the products i like every bit i love the concept you know it really is the

[00:35:16] you know possible starts out as a volunteer businessman so to speak but a volunteer minister

[00:35:23] and but he's also a businessman and then he ends up you know where he's got a full-time

[00:35:30] career so to speak and reaching others i love that concept like you just i just love it all i love

[00:35:36] every bit of it that's what amway does you start out as a volunteer business person and if you're

[00:35:41] persistent and all of those things they have the qualities and even if you fail it doesn't

[00:35:46] matter because you've learned some things i've met so many former amway people who are now

[00:35:52] have businesses because i think you just learned i think that's part of it yeah i mean there's a

[00:35:58] few of them we've talked about on the podcast i mean i was i was an amway and yeah it's like i

[00:36:02] love randy mcdonald talked about having been in amway so yeah so rich tells you quit amway and

[00:36:08] and do what quit amway and well just pursue what are you saying no no i was already a pastor

[00:36:13] it's just pursue your dream so we tried things on how to reach people in the 1990s and i then

[00:36:20] went to oregon and that's where the story of zoe came and all of those things and then i

[00:36:26] hooked up with the bible league and at the bible league you know i found that you know people were

[00:36:34] willing worldwide because the bible league is all over the world people are willing worldwide

[00:36:40] but if they didn't have training if you say to a christian who's called go reach people

[00:36:46] and they don't have training and they fail they become cynical and they will never try

[00:36:51] something again and i saw that all over the world so what what rich does in amway is they train people

[00:36:59] and that helps them succeed so the internet was coming along and it was now 2001 and i had a mission

[00:37:08] for the bible league in manhattan new york on september 10th i flew in and september 11th i

[00:37:15] was to negotiate a rare bible display from the american bible society in broadway in manhattan

[00:37:21] and that's the day that the towers were struck so now the towers are struck and i'm there and i'm

[00:37:30] ministering to people and when people find out i'm a minister there's a line waiting to talk to me

[00:37:37] so i again realized that there are no atheists in foxholes you know i mean there is like in the

[00:37:45] end of the day i mean there's smoke in the air there's jets crashing into things and at first

[00:37:50] when this happened we had no idea what was happening so people were very so so i'm like

[00:37:55] ministering and i realize we just need more ministers so the week i get back i call rich

[00:38:02] de vasa and i say you know what it's the education piece rich he goes what do you mean i got you know

[00:38:08] i found out that through the internet we could do like free education really you know about the

[00:38:18] i said nothing i will find out i there's a story like a like a couple years later we're

[00:38:25] pamm and i're on vacation on the beach and i have this big thick html book and i read net

[00:38:30] dyslexic one word at a time and it's html too which is half backwards itself anyway so you're

[00:38:35] really confused she looks at me and she goes are you okay is this gonna like kill you

[00:38:44] you know but but you know but but so by you know that was the whole thing and the mentorship of rich

[00:38:51] was really good because it made it made me realize you know what anway did for most for me

[00:38:56] is that made me the possibility i saw in they have mobilized in millions of volunteer business people

[00:39:03] i saw we could mobilize millions and millions of our ministers right if we could just figure out

[00:39:10] the the steps connected to like you know to be an amway it's really you buy a kit for free some

[00:39:17] things well it's cli all the training is free now we ask for donations and all that

[00:39:24] so you know we have to fund what we do but the end it's everything is just let's launch leaders

[00:39:30] so it's a so we did we started in 2001 we started christian leaders which first row program was

[00:39:38] christian leaders institute and now we pretty much identify as christian leaders institute

[00:39:43] although our kind of common name is christian leaders so 2001 you started no earlier you

[00:39:48] said 2006 so what what yeah 2001 we started the kind of christian leaders and then it was going to be on

[00:39:57] the internet but i had to figure out how to do that so you know it's like so what i did is i planted

[00:40:06] a church another church with dr david fetus so we planted a church dr david fetus brilliant

[00:40:13] brilliant not like one of those guys you're just like what huh yeah exactly brilliant yeah he was so i met

[00:40:20] him at calvin seminary and he was talking really slow at the first he grew like cook out for the

[00:40:27] first day at seminary now he's like who's that guy talked to you it wasn't it wasn't a hebrew

[00:40:32] pig roast was it no it was but you know everybody so when you started calvin seminary back then

[00:40:40] they would have like you came early for spru but then they would like start your hebrou class

[00:40:45] started with roast pig roast or something in the outside and so you get to meet all the peers and

[00:40:51] me being the last born really it was a pig roast it did it did the whole thing so that was only half

[00:40:57] a joke it was not half a joke it was like a pig roast or something like yeah anyway anyway you

[00:41:04] digress but anyway so they would do all these things and so i would like being like sort of

[00:41:09] like this and i am like sort of a social creature you know comfortable yeah it's true well what so

[00:41:16] anyway i'm i'm sort of like so who are who's he who's the who who over here you know so i'm listening

[00:41:23] to dr david fetus at that time david and he's talking real he's from montana so and it forms

[00:41:28] a farmer from montana so he's talking like real slow and i'm thinking oh so somebody's like gonna

[00:41:33] be slower than me here you know it's like so i thought like yes i'm like so then you know

[00:41:42] i may not lay minister yeah i may not make it but at least maybe there's somebody that will not

[00:41:47] make it with me you know so i'm like listening to him speak and everything like that and then

[00:41:55] i'm listening like oh this is brilliant he's like at another level you know so in what i did

[00:42:02] seminary is like i tried to find all kinds of smart people because i was just luck's the guy to

[00:42:06] figure out how to like get through so i had my wife she was on my team so we'd have these study

[00:42:12] groups with they would be part of and i would like my wife would read all my textbooks write

[00:42:19] copious clear notes and then i would get a whole group of other very smart people and then they

[00:42:24] would get their notes so i pretty much went through college seminar without reading anything

[00:42:29] that's impressive you know wow and and wait and now you are the president of a 600 000 student

[00:42:39] but he leveraged and the lesson for today is leverage and networking that's probably a good

[00:42:46] point you know at the end of the day in the end of the day i was comfortable around very qualified

[00:42:52] people that i didn't have to be maybe maybe the dyslexic dyslexia was all part of like

[00:42:58] a desirable disadvantage maybe in the end you know i was sort of like i can't do it but i can

[00:43:03] find people who can do it and that's all that matters so now we have 50 professors and and i

[00:43:08] wanted professors that are way better than me in their subject area sure sure but but i mean

[00:43:13] that right there is the premise of to having a successful business you know if you're looking

[00:43:19] at it even from a worldly standpoint or any standpoint any standpoint like you don't want

[00:43:24] to be the smartest guy in your organization no that's clearly true for here but but i think that's

[00:43:32] i don't know like people can look at things as being so negative like like you have dyslexia

[00:43:38] okay so what you know i'm mostly like oh he's never gonna make it right i think that's very

[00:43:44] hard from the truth but you you learn how to work with what you have and right but but i think

[00:43:50] that's an even further leg up than somebody that thinks that they have it together because you can

[00:43:57] move faster i never thought i had it together i still don't really so you know but that's what i mean

[00:44:03] it's that's the the humbleness that comes from that is you know you know what you know and you

[00:44:10] know what you don't know and so i'll find people to figure it out i like that that's awesome

[00:44:15] so my dad and as i started golf young and my dad had a philosophy of golf okay and i just loved it so

[00:44:22] my dad was the best putter i've ever seen he could just see it was a welder and he used to have this

[00:44:27] theory like you know you put a spot on the hole like you put a spot on the welding tip and you

[00:44:34] just have to surrender yourself to the spot or you'd burn yourself or destroy what you're

[00:44:39] welding okay so he but he also had other philosophies such as if you're in the sand trap you don't say

[00:44:47] i got into the sand trap instead you say i get to hit it out of the sand trap

[00:44:53] you know yeah oh yeah it's perspective right and and i always look at that like over my life i'd

[00:44:59] look at and say like you know well this is a challenge but i get to like figure and navigate

[00:45:06] what this challenge is going to be and you know what golf is hard life is hard so you know what lower

[00:45:11] your expectations the nugget proverbs 32 here it's like yeah lower your expectations because you

[00:45:21] know something is hard you know and and sometimes you end up doing really well and sometimes it's you

[00:45:26] come back for another day and that's what makes it so incredibly inquisitive and curious and fun

[00:45:31] amazing like a business you know i love i everything about this i love because you try things and

[00:45:38] your market here that doesn't work you try this you try the one thing you don't do is quit right

[00:45:43] yeah right so you have awesome like and that's what i think too is sorry no go go go do what i

[00:45:51] think is cool is your perspective and just from what i mean this is the first time i met you

[00:45:56] Henry um Justin yeah please to me yeah and but what i think is cool is what you can hear through

[00:46:01] your whole story is your positive attitude like well i'm just going to do it why not because i

[00:46:08] get asked that a lot they're like well why would you do that i was like well i want why wouldn't i

[00:46:12] try it right what if you fail but what if i'm successful and i never look at his failure we

[00:46:18] had a client always called it paying tuition so anytime you mess up on a job or whatever well

[00:46:22] you paid tuition yeah so you learn that class he goes hopefully you don't have to retake it yeah but

[00:46:28] you know that's a good way to move move forward through life and that's one thing i always try to

[00:46:32] tell my kids is what you tell yourself in your day today is tends to be what you believe about it

[00:46:40] yes i said so if you have a challenge in front of you you get to do this you get to

[00:46:43] accomplish something you get to learn something they don't like it when they got to go like

[00:46:46] pick up dog poop or right you know do dishes but but you learn it you you're learning something and

[00:46:52] it's even learning how to have a good attitude even if it's something that's not desirable that you

[00:46:56] want to do you know if you don't learn how to do dog poop picking up learn how to do it like the

[00:47:01] best possible yeah i'll get in your hands dirty yeah exactly that's use a shovel i mean use a

[00:47:07] shovel i mean that's that would probably be a good goal while picking up dog poop is to just

[00:47:11] to now i get it on your hands that's right and you know i mean just if you you know i just think we

[00:47:17] have great opportunities you know i see that when i've traveled to africa where i've seen like so

[00:47:24] much positivity and i've seen people live in places that by american standards would be like

[00:47:30] i can't even believe it's not like you get stuck in the sand trap it's like you got stuck

[00:47:35] with the two-stroke penalty way out of bounds and you know i mean it's that type of and i see in jesus christ

[00:47:44] the people who take what they're given and they maximize it and they impact others

[00:47:52] it's just incredible early you were talking about um kind of walking through like as as business

[00:47:58] owners and that being our ministry our sales guy an estimator for overbuilt used to be a pastor

[00:48:07] and so he's been with us four years now and we were talking the other day at lunch and

[00:48:12] it was probably a year ago or so he's like i never realized the opportunity i would have

[00:48:19] to minister to people now he was more so than when i was a pastor because when i'm

[00:48:25] when you're a pastor you carry that title and everybody expects you right he goes and then

[00:48:29] they're like oh well high pastor today you know i'm doing very well and they never let

[00:48:36] the real them come out correct he goes and i get to see people as they are as real he goes and it's

[00:48:42] he goes i think i because i think it's way more effective because it's he goes it is crazy

[00:48:48] the opportunity that i've had here just the guys that we work with and clients that we meet

[00:48:53] and their stories like it's it's awesome and to hear him like kind of say that to it like oh yeah

[00:49:00] that does make a lot of sense a lot of my most the thing i'm most excited about right now at

[00:49:06] cli is our efficient program now why well so the universal life church that doesn't really

[00:49:12] believe in anything about anything somehow well how do you really feel about that

[00:49:18] Henry can you can you unpack a little bit all i can say about that is if you go to the website

[00:49:23] they'll say they don't believe anything about anything so i don't even think i'm like character

[00:49:27] you're quoting okay yeah it's like you know do you have you constructed in your own mind a good life

[00:49:33] that you could be a minister you know that type of stuff so but anyway i just think that's true

[00:49:38] but one thing they have done is so many people are asked to do weddings and for me i had to go

[00:49:46] four years to college four more years of seminary learn all this get a master's degree

[00:49:51] somehow make it through that entire thing to somehow do one simple wedding for your daughter

[00:50:00] okay now i'm just saying okay so you know as as we were learning how to mobilize

[00:50:07] volunteer ministers we saw that we said what if we put together a really amazing 10 hour

[00:50:13] training program to do a wedding and to do minimal pastoral counseling just stuff in bed

[00:50:21] in your own family and maybe that's the first role that somebody takes to be a minister

[00:50:27] and the word efficient is of an old word that goes back to like melchizedek officiates to

[00:50:33] abraham and then you know moses goes and meets jeff row you know rural as he was first called

[00:50:41] and he's a efficient officiator in like the land of midion and you know it's just it is

[00:50:48] but one thing in common both in melchizedek and row or jeff row is that they're embedded

[00:50:54] they're embedded business leaders so to speak or whatever they're doing sure but they're

[00:50:59] that's an office of the priest but it's like an embedded grassroots office of the priest

[00:51:05] so what if we then had christian leaders alliance through our sister credentialing ministry

[00:51:10] what if we had sort of the embedded people and yeah they could be part of their local churches and all

[00:51:16] that other stuff but they do weddings now we have a funeral efficient we have a ministry efficient we

[00:51:21] have a romance efficient for mainly women who help people learn how to romance because now with

[00:51:27] these smart tools and everything people know a lot of new technology but they can't even relate

[00:51:32] to each other so what if we embed people and the business leaders are the ones i get here with

[00:51:40] this long statement to get to this that the business leaders of the united states are becoming

[00:51:46] white and efficient for us because they don't want to go to universal life church and they come

[00:51:50] and they are some of the biggest sewers into this ministry after they had a great experience

[00:51:55] with their daughter or niece or something like that in terms of performing the wedding

[00:51:59] ceremony and and then all of a sudden they're saying like your friend whoa now people from their

[00:52:07] company are asking them to do their wedding they're not going to any church you know my fascinating

[00:52:14] my father-in-law great mentor in the faith he's a pastor and he said his greatest ministry tool as

[00:52:20] a pastor the two greatest ministry tools he has are weddings and funerals right because there are

[00:52:26] people showing up to hear about the things of god who never will write they will never darken the door

[00:52:32] of a church and here they are for a wedding because their cousin's getting married yes that is weddings

[00:52:38] and funerals are the greatest opportunity for him right now because he is pastor dave right and so

[00:52:44] that people don't let down their guards or whatever but when he does a wedding or a funeral

[00:52:49] i promise you you will hear the gospel if that man is doing the wedding or the funeral

[00:52:53] it doesn't matter where the person came from they will you will hear the gospel that because

[00:52:58] that's his biggest and so that's an incredible program to be able you know i love to go through

[00:53:04] seminary to have access to that huge ministry field that huge mission field it's just amazing

[00:53:10] because then after that we'll train them on anything the else want to do but what i find

[00:53:15] you don't like how a captain of a ship can do weddings and funerals right okay if you're

[00:53:20] running business you're the captain of your ship so i want to say

[00:53:24] we'll train you to do weddings and funerals because as things deconstruct i think we're in

[00:53:30] we're going into kind of a desert land okay but that does not mean god is not at work god is

[00:53:36] at work amen okay so i sort of feel like you know how many agents of hope can come out of business

[00:53:43] leaders who become efficient okay right because i just really believe that you know god has

[00:53:50] plans and where things are going to be i look back at the 1980s when i started to now it looks so

[00:53:56] different but it's going to look different 30 years from now and we're going to be part of

[00:54:01] the seeds for what that's going to look like so we're entering into the age of the efficient

[00:54:07] you know so maybe the two female slaves talked about plenty were efficient to a slave

[00:54:14] enslaved people and they were used by god to create a world where some of the first even

[00:54:20] leaders of that church the catholic church were ex slaves yeah i don't know who knows but my attitude

[00:54:26] this is like you know what if we're in the sand let's we have to hit the sand and put

[00:54:32] exactly exactly i want to jump back story wise a little bit so you start cli online school

[00:54:40] you get funded there might have been somebody involved who had a little bit of money yeah yeah

[00:54:47] mr. devos definitely gave some seed i okay should i planted a church on the side in fact i said to him

[00:54:53] he you know wanted to support the whole thing and i said no uh i don't want you know just we need

[00:54:59] a little here and there but i'll just kind of support myself too sure absolutely well and that

[00:55:06] i mean naturally god has given you a gift in terms of relating to people and and getting people on

[00:55:12] board and getting people excited about like you maybe i remember you told the story at one of

[00:55:18] the luncheons over here the met the golf course that you you just went across the street and

[00:55:23] knocked on the door of a building or you were talking to some people outside smoking was like

[00:55:27] hey is the is the owner here is he a christian and they're like yeah he's real religious and

[00:55:33] so he walked up see he walked upstairs i don't know maybe if you can knock on thousands of doors

[00:55:38] you can certainly knock on a business store so he goes up and he i think i think the way you told

[00:55:44] it maybe maybe correct me if i'm wrong but he goes up to the you know the gatekeeper the

[00:55:48] secretary right and he's like hey can i see so-and-so and she's like well who are you

[00:55:53] and he and he goes tell him henry's here and the guy gave him two minutes to talk to him next

[00:56:00] thing you know the guy's one of the bigger supporters at cly that's so cool you know Henry's

[00:56:06] here but you would you'd never know if you don't ask right so henry's got that gift and and not only

[00:56:13] did he get his way in the door and god prevent presented him that opportunity but he but he also

[00:56:19] was able to communicate an excitement to this guy that this guy wanted it's like i don't know

[00:56:23] where you're going but i'll go with you you know what i mean i think god has gifted henry

[00:56:26] with that kind of leading and i think a lot of entrepreneurs are gifted in that you know right

[00:56:30] in order to build a business you have to you have to almost sell i mean you have not you have to sell

[00:56:35] you have to sell you do but not only are you selling a product but you're selling an idea

[00:56:41] and and and i think god has gifted you with that ability to sell an idea so people can get

[00:56:46] excited about christian leaders about about training about changing the world about setting

[00:56:52] the world on fire with with the gospel through equipping leaders to do that i really love that

[00:56:58] about the efficient program with business leaders if anyone's listening to this you know if there's

[00:57:04] a what the takeaway my takeaway would be become an efficient become a 10 hour course 10 hour course

[00:57:12] and it costs millions of dollars yeah yeah it's all the training is free that we have three

[00:57:17] packages the 125 package the 200 package and three-year package with all your clergy card and your

[00:57:24] letter of good standing there's a it's yeah costs just a little more than an am we kit sure

[00:57:32] i'm just joking well kind of not but it's true yeah my point being is is it doesn't take

[00:57:40] that much to actually step forward right exactly and if you love doing a wedding

[00:57:47] net who knows maybe you'll get more training and then you become a ministry efficient a funeral

[00:57:52] efficient maybe then you become a licensed minister and who knows and in why leave your

[00:57:59] business mm-hmm very embedded this is the day of the embedded so i want to i want to talk a

[00:58:06] little bit and i i mean christian leaders is huge on my heart obviously but i want to i want to

[00:58:12] get here with one of our alum it's like you know you make it when somebody's a podcast and comes

[00:58:18] back and and you know interviews the president of the school that you're part of this is not

[00:58:23] happening too much yet so i just the concept behind christian leaders and i want to talk to

[00:58:31] obviously you have said that i mean we just said over six six hundred and twenty five thousand

[00:58:36] enrolled in accounts that have been created and those are six hundred twenty five thousand

[00:58:42] opportunities to take the next step that the holy spirit's laying upon you and so

[00:58:48] i want to talk a little bit about um costs okay i remember when i first started you were measuring

[00:58:55] the cost per student because of the way the school i mean it's all online yeah record a video

[00:59:00] you pay a guy to record a video and create a class and then it's on there it's up there he doesn't

[00:59:04] yeah we have we have questions and you know you've got to have accountability we just received our in

[00:59:12] february of two thousand and twenty four here we received our candidacy status with the u.s.

[00:59:16] department of education which is cool because now you can go to a place like liberty with our

[00:59:21] bachelor degree and they have 300 masters degrees so get this you can go class wise you can get

[00:59:28] our bachelor degree for four thousand dollars and then go on to liberating it a master's degree so

[00:59:35] in that four thousand dollars though this is a really challenging education this is like the

[00:59:40] harvard of free even though it is free don't deceive yourself no absolutely you know you

[00:59:47] education right so i've gotten my bachelor's at cli and that's all all the coursework is free

[00:59:53] so i just want to play all the coursework it's worth you can take you can take every

[00:59:56] course they've got here yeah without a dime and then if you want things like certifications degrees

[01:00:02] that kind of thing official things and even the whole the whole the cost yeah there is a cost even

[01:00:07] like the degree program we're highly regulated so we have all these procedures so had to hire a

[01:00:13] registrar we have everything so we have educational services fees that cover because it's not

[01:00:18] scalable you all businessmen don't know that you know you gotta make it scalable

[01:00:22] so our concept is donations support the overhead of more classes and all that will make all that

[01:00:28] free so that anyone in the world gets it but if you personalize something now it has to be scalable

[01:00:34] or i can't hire the people to maintain it somebody's got to look over the transcripts and that cost

[01:00:40] money so so appreciate that when i first started you were talking about cost per i think it was

[01:00:48] cost per credit hour when you divided all the credit hours compete completed by the total budget

[01:00:52] of the school the cost per credit hour was i don't know something like 20 bucks or something

[01:00:59] and then you had to move to cost per class because that number got so low and then it was

[01:01:03] like 20 bucks per class and then you had to knock it down to cost per student and then you had to

[01:01:08] now get down to cost per degree program and now what what what's your metric right now that you're

[01:01:13] using as a cost per like the cost per 100 000 students or something what's the you know i it's

[01:01:21] it's somewhat fluid because i wonder why maybe henry keeps having ideas and wanting to start new

[01:01:29] programs you know how many degree programs are there available at sale right now so we have award

[01:01:35] certificate diplomas and those are like adult education type things and they're very all you

[01:01:41] do is pay for like the hundred dollar certificate or diploma or whatever it's very it's we have now

[01:01:46] two schools how we got a credit to we have the christian development school which is

[01:01:50] like the adult education school then we have the leadership excellence school which is the

[01:01:55] degree school all regulated by the accreditation issues and you know accreditation is like this

[01:02:01] wonderful journey really really wonderful journey really what were you saying about him being positive

[01:02:08] justin so if you're in the sand trap you just have to decide how to figure out how to get out of

[01:02:14] the sand trap i'll just agree and you know so in all of that and the lord has brought the right

[01:02:19] combination of people to help us in these things but you know i you know we i look at cost being

[01:02:27] so we call it the give it forward or pay it forward so when a student comes in we just say

[01:02:32] this is our dream this is our vision do you want to make a donation and we we receive more

[01:02:39] income of donations from africa than the cost of the program in africa now that way africa

[01:02:48] africa is supporting more than the whole program in africa correct now what's cool about that

[01:02:58] is in that continent that's been a place that's really received that's been a mission place

[01:03:06] where western money from europe and united states has been invested and still if you go there today

[01:03:12] it's very much in that culture so the fact that africa pays for itself and then some and then

[01:03:19] africa is paying for us ministry yes it's sowing into this ministry just by the simple asking

[01:03:28] why would you like to support so our goal so okay on accreditation this is the only thing i'll say

[01:03:32] about accreditation it became clear in february that the key issue for christian leaders institute

[01:03:40] was not the large foundation support because most of the colleges 85 percent of their operating budget

[01:03:50] comes from student generated income via student loans right okay and that's connected to the

[01:03:59] generated viet never mind i'm not even going to go there okay just say now what that means

[01:04:05] is they get student guaranteed loans those loans pay for the operations of the school now christian

[01:04:11] leaders institute we have specifically intentionally we will not take government money we will not get

[01:04:16] student no one will get a student loan to come to christian leaders institute period so the

[01:04:22] definition for us to get accredited is we too have to go to 85 percent 85 percent of our operating

[01:04:29] budget must come from student generated income which could be donations from students and could be

[01:04:36] the paying for the fees and all of that so we're at at the time of february we're at 50 percent

[01:04:44] of now our budget is through student-generated income the the one dollar gift from south africa

[01:04:51] as well as the you know 25 a month gift from students in america as well as the 75

[01:04:57] dollar a month fee payment for the degree program whether you know that is at 50 percent so i have

[01:05:04] a young team here at christian leaders institute so i said here's the key we have five years

[01:05:10] to make that number go from 50 percent to 85 percent because the next time we go to the

[01:05:15] commission and the commission is this is a table of like 22 leaders and you're sitting there in

[01:05:20] inquisition feels like that you know so the whole point is what they want to see is 85 percent and

[01:05:27] they end that can't be from donations the can't be from kingdom foundations large

[01:05:33] churches now but what those monies can come in for is pay for another language so we're in english

[01:05:38] now we're we're in spanish we're in ukraine we're in russian we're in chinese as well as french

[01:05:44] those the k- like this is like i would i i mean i don't mind giving henry 10 minutes to

[01:05:51] plug see i mean this is amazing what god has done here at christian leaders institute

[01:05:56] it just where you can i mean people can get a cell phone before they get a septic system

[01:06:01] in parts of the country and they can get a free ministry education that would prepare them to

[01:06:09] be a pastor just as much as a lot of seminaries they don't leave their home they don't leave their

[01:06:15] influent because you talk about what i forget you're embedded you're embedded they're embedded

[01:06:19] what happens the traditional way is and i've seen this happen so much and henry this is one thing

[01:06:24] you outlined to me one time that it's just always stuck with me a church or a church will

[01:06:29] go over and and be you know send missionaries over and they'll you know find a guy that

[01:06:35] that is a leader and they'll want to train him so they raise money to bring him over to the states

[01:06:40] and go to a stateside school okay well he's married well now he's over here for a year and now we got

[01:06:46] to bring his family over so we raise money and bring his family over now he's in the school

[01:06:51] now he's attending a church locally and the church goes man this guy is great he's got a call of

[01:06:55] god on his life a few things happen either the church hires him and he stays over here now

[01:07:01] we have a foreign missionary coming to the united states getting trained and staying here and the

[01:07:05] people back in his village are gone or he says nope god's called me back there he goes back there now

[01:07:10] he's been gone for four to seven years getting an education his wife's been flushing toilets and using

[01:07:16] an electric washing machine and ends up back in the village and goes oh my goodness what are you

[01:07:20] doing and the people are like who are you mr america and he's lost all his influence all

[01:07:24] his embedment and he's uncomfortable because he's been living in western culture for so long

[01:07:29] and so it's so ineffective we're now henry says well that's dumb right and so henry says give the

[01:07:35] guy a cell phone for 20 bucks and and a five dollar a month cell phone plan which is another

[01:07:41] rat anyway you the the cell phone companies will charge what you are willing to pay i get

[01:07:47] so anyway so now a guy's got his cell phone and he's getting quality try i mean master's degrees

[01:07:54] dr david fetus right is he still provost yeah okay dr david i mean the guy's brilliant so yeah any

[01:08:00] seminary level education is in the hands of these people in foreign countries now being translated

[01:08:05] into their language and can you tell i'm excited about christian leaders institute yeah like it's

[01:08:10] leaky now yes it's it's sorry i'll try and cover that up so it's incredible but then for a guy like

[01:08:17] me who's you know got a family here in states etc i'm not i'm not gonna go pay 40 50 60 000

[01:08:24] dollars to go get an education when i've got a family defeat i've got i've got a business to run

[01:08:29] i've got all this stuff i mean literally it took me from i i completed the coursework from my

[01:08:33] bachelor's degree in 2021 i started at the school in 2009 okay i just took my time and did

[01:08:40] it sitting in my bed in my underwear taking classes right and let's not go there little

[01:08:46] image for y'all so fantastic so it's been so it helps all the way around it is completely funded by

[01:08:54] donations etc there's no government money like you just know so when i started it was based on

[01:08:59] mentorship you had to have a mentor to be you know a pastor who's a mentor you still do if you're

[01:09:04] in the bachelor program you have there's a whole system of stuff that you still have to go

[01:09:09] you know to me the key thing is how do we mobilize you know my dream now is in the next 10 years so in

[01:09:17] 10 years roughly it's the 2000 years exactly from the resurrection from the dead that is fascinating

[01:09:25] 2000 years exact okay because jesus rose from the dead two third you know like 33 or 34 ad

[01:09:33] so we're talking you know 10 years from now roughly okay and i would love to see 100 million people

[01:09:41] through cli and i remember when henry said i want to see 100 000 christian leaders

[01:09:48] and there are now 625 enrollments yep 625 000 enrollments so when henry says 10 million

[01:09:58] i would be surprised if that did not happen i'm talking 100 million yeah i i i think you know

[01:10:06] i still think you know what you know it might be it might be over maybe it's like 200 million i don't

[01:10:11] know i mean probably you know you know the thing is is why not why no just like it doesn't happen

[01:10:17] so so it didn't happen but hey i'll take 60 right well to that like if you're more in

[01:10:27] cli to get a bigger number if you're shooting for something way bigger because the processes that

[01:10:32] you have to go through in order to like really focus on that goal is going to push you further

[01:10:36] than if it's a little bit more attainable and you're like well we're at 100 10 years okay what

[01:10:41] a friend million right it's like okay yeah cool you accomplished it but what could you have done

[01:10:48] right no i actually i look at there's 2.3 billion christians at 100 million and that's in the

[01:10:55] world 2.3 billion christians in the world 100 million there's only 4.25 percent that's not that

[01:11:02] much right right so okay again these are ministers these are leaders but you know they can be leaders

[01:11:09] that are embedded through a businessman who has an efficient efficient ministry i don't care i

[01:11:13] any whatever it's gonna and here we are 625 000 enrollees and we're sitting in the office

[01:11:21] right now we're podcasting from from the christian leaders the cli michigan headquarters and okay so you

[01:11:29] think wow i mean cli 625 i mean this has got to be a sprawling metropolis here with all kinds of

[01:11:34] how many people do you have on staff at cli we have like well lots of part time let's say we have

[01:11:40] like 25 full times okay and we are right now in a building that's probably what 3000 square feet

[01:11:47] um it's 4000 square feet if that yeah it's so but we're but my point is it's old we have needs work

[01:11:57] my point is henry has now not only been able to leverage relationships but he has also leveraged

[01:12:04] resources that i mean think about a traditional education system think about a traditional college

[01:12:12] to to run 625 000 students through it i mean what is the infrastructure what is the what are the

[01:12:18] buildings what is the grounds what is the and and god has moved things in such a way in your life

[01:12:26] and gifted you in such a way and the people around you that this is i mean this is lean this is very

[01:12:33] lean for education our budgets about two million dollars but you know so it for for what i could

[01:12:41] see in the future is like language groups because you know no longer are you like setting up a seminary

[01:12:49] in ukraine no it's the ukrain language group and now ukraine is being scattered throughout the world

[01:12:55] in terms of what's happening in the war but a war can't stop it right a war can't shut

[01:13:02] anything down and you know you mentioned before you know a cell phone amazingly we're not

[01:13:06] subsidizing anything they're getting their own cell phones right so we don't i don't know i'd probably

[01:13:12] know this that if we do a language group it's a global language group right so french is spoken

[01:13:19] all over you know rich in helen devos this is 2014 15 and they're now advanced in age he died in

[01:13:25] she died in 270 he died in 2018 and their last gift was a three-year commitment for french

[01:13:34] and because of that gift you know we have french going we it's run by a volunteer director she's out

[01:13:42] of adela canada she works for the canadian government she's the volunteer director she

[01:13:48] is a staff of mainly volunteers who then administer the french program it's like crazy the

[01:13:54] whole thing is crazy and you know it so now again that submission program because the french

[01:14:02] rich devos said when he supported this the french were highly underserved in africa french africa

[01:14:09] and they were very poor and they didn't hardly even had internet connection in 2014

[01:14:14] in rich as someday they're gonna have phones like we have phones and he was right that day is today

[01:14:19] now people in very poor french africa are accessing ministry training so that's really cool

[01:14:27] that's just incredible what god's doing and so i want to i want to kind of just kind of maybe wrap

[01:14:32] some stuff up and put a bow on it henry what you know what give us a couple things we did talk about

[01:14:39] why not give us a couple things to leave with somebody you know obviously business podcast but

[01:14:45] at the same time you know equipping leaders etc give us a couple things to walk away with just

[01:14:50] kind of wrap some stuff up and put a bow on it for us i think the first thing is to have

[01:14:54] the empower attitude is like you know in the end your goal is not to be the implementer it's to

[01:15:02] empower others and equip them with the vision and get and help them see the best in themselves

[01:15:10] and help them see that they can contribute and there is obstacles to that because sometimes

[01:15:15] people they're you know they're triggered they're shut down they can't believe they can do it

[01:15:20] they want to do the lowest common denominator in your company and but a lot of it comes down to is

[01:15:26] is they're a lot of times afraid they're afraid to step forward and in the empowerment attitude is

[01:15:32] like you know what this is why we're here and this is a role but you know how can we help you

[01:15:40] dream of things you never dreamed before okay so that's one one kind of takeaway the

[01:15:46] nothing takeaway that i would have is is constantly throw mud on the wall with a portion of your

[01:15:54] time and effort you don't know what's going to happen you know you take the efficient program in

[01:16:00] some ways here at the universal life church is branding this cultural brand in this everywhere

[01:16:06] and christians and non-christians and all sorts of people are like doing this okay now i can

[01:16:13] promise you calvin seminary would not be thinking of doing an efficient program but we threw mud on

[01:16:21] the wall so to speak in this sense it's an old term it's an old role it goes back to the old testament

[01:16:29] what if we helped now at first when this idea was put out there everybody thought like

[01:16:37] can you even do that right you know i don't know we'll find out yeah right but you know why not

[01:16:44] and we didn't invest a ton of money in this we didn't like but we said you know let's empower

[01:16:50] volunteer business leaders and volunteer people to do one thing and maybe it would tease them into

[01:16:58] really getting into ministry even more and that's exactly what has happened

[01:17:02] but when we first started it felt like like this way out there thing again i think for a

[01:17:07] takeaway for business leaders is while you are leading your company you have your focus

[01:17:15] but don't close things down like sometimes it's that thought that happens at 4 30 a.m. in the morning

[01:17:23] that's the brilliant thought that's going to change your company in a positive way

[01:17:28] and you don't have to throw a ton of money into it just advance the idea talk about it a little bit

[01:17:36] next thing you know something happens and the lord shows up in ways that you don't imagine like

[01:17:44] you know the third thing is just try things like you know if i would have sent the facts to rich

[01:17:49] devos i would have yeah he could have said no you know i've had thousands of no's but you

[01:17:54] know what's nice about a no you know that's the closed door there's another one right around the

[01:17:59] corner i hate the maybe's the worst there is like painful like the painful maybe's like

[01:18:08] you know that's something we could consider in the future you know if you're out you're out

[01:18:14] you know go paul said you'll let your yes be yes we know i i i heard you said that and then paul

[01:18:20] went on to talk about that more and i like that you know i would rather have a no just tell me

[01:18:26] no so i can move on i sit here and follow up in the last thing just don't get in your own head

[01:18:33] you know what that is is you know i remember we go door to door and going door to door is like

[01:18:40] head case city because you will try to convince yourself after the second door this is like freaking

[01:18:46] waste of time you know okay and and so but if you say to yourself look in the next three hours

[01:18:57] i'm going in everybody by the way in every business has the equivalent of what it means to

[01:19:02] do go door to door and anyone knows it like this is my door to door my door to door crucible

[01:19:10] so whatever that is don't get in your head if if you have three hours to do it and that's how you

[01:19:16] have a lot of your time then just do it so my door to door right now is sending texts to brand new

[01:19:24] students and i'd send them a little text and the little text says hi i'm henry and i'm here to help

[01:19:31] me get started if you're interested and many of them come back and talk now it's it can be like

[01:19:39] why should the president you know but you know what i don't want to lose the edge it's out of these

[01:19:48] encounters that do incredible ideas emerge that's my now today my door to door so

[01:19:55] i didn't challenge the business leaders as to don't get in your head you know what your

[01:19:59] door to door is put it in your thing and just do it and you could get no you can get yes or you

[01:20:05] can get an idea that literally changes the culture of your business as you build the orchard of your

[01:20:11] business so henry what is the best way for somebody to get connected with cli christian

[01:20:17] leaders institute dot org or you could type in christian leaders dot org and you'll get there

[01:20:24] and then just sign up and take the multiplying christian leaders getting started class and that

[01:20:31] will give you everything you know so christian leaders dot org and so you not leadership leaders

[01:20:38] christian leaders and not cli that's center for leadership impact anyway i've been leaders

[01:20:44] dot org yes and so there is one course that everybody has to take it's an introductory course

[01:20:51] i mean you know do people have to complete it yes because any credential you get you have to

[01:20:56] have that in your end you're in there but you can take other courses simultaneously oh okay

[01:21:00] but you really have to take that class because it gives you like you know here's the deal is if

[01:21:06] you don't have the the class you can become a pain in our customer service department

[01:21:13] and since we're like a free you know all the classes are free we need to make this easy

[01:21:17] yeah yeah we give up you know help us yeah we're helping you yeah we're exactly help us by just doing

[01:21:25] the one thing we asked that's it that's what we need so we'll we'll make sure and put that link in

[01:21:32] the description yeah and then for all of you who are listening we just appreciate it and we would

[01:21:37] love to hear stories we gotta we got a message the other day about somebody who was blessed

[01:21:41] by what's going on through a christian business podcast and so we would love to hear your stories

[01:21:46] and so you know if if one of these things has blessed you or if you connect with cli and things

[01:21:53] you know you you find blessing they're great let us know let them know and kind of tell us your

[01:21:57] story and then also share this share this was friends with friends the this particular message

[01:22:02] that we got says that somebody was blessed by what we do here at a christian business podcast

[01:22:09] and there may be someone that you know that would be blessed by this as well so please

[01:22:13] share this share this on your social media subscribe to it it ranks us up in the in the

[01:22:18] searches when people search for christian business podcasts and we'll go from there we've got some

[01:22:22] guests coming up from really all over the country some that are that we're really excited about so

[01:22:28] stay tuned for that henry thank you so much and thank you for the work that you do i'm gonna take

[01:22:34] just a second and say a quick prayer for for you henry and cli father we just thank you for

[01:22:38] all that you've done and who you are and we just thank you for henry we thank you for calling him

[01:22:44] and equipping him to to to participate in an incredible ministry that you have to the world

[01:22:50] and i pray that you would as the psalm says establish the work of his hands father that

[01:22:55] that more and more people that he would see a hundred million equipped leaders christian

[01:23:01] leaders and so lord we just we pray that in the name of uh jesus amen amen amen all right thank you henry

[01:23:10] you're welcome